FANDOM

A FANDOM user
  Loading editor
  • Hey there! As much as I appreciate your will to help out, I would prefer it if you did not mark pages for deletion or try to change how the wiki is built up without asking first. The History pages as well as other content you seem to consider unnecessary because of their current length are too stay as they are and will not be deleted only because there has not been much content. Biography sections are for personality and character development, the history should stay individual for those who seek this direct information. Thank you!

      Loading editor
    IRosefeather
    IRosefeather closed this thread because:
    Discussion On Hold
    18:34, January 20, 2016
    • Hi. I didn't know when you'd be active again since your last post was before Christmas and nothing since then. It's not uncommon for people to fall off the radar without warning.

      In any case, currently the wiki is very difficult to navigate due to a large number of categories and pages which do not seem to value-add e.g. "ending songs" versus "songs" in general have a large amount of overlap and too little information to populate. I'd strongly suggest that as an admin, you should start working on the navigation bar at the top, since currently there are a number of overarching categories not accessible from it. Navigation should be intuitive in that someone looking for information should not have to go through 3 different pages before finding what they are looking for. The guidelines pages can also be more detailed, outlining each page/section/subsection that should be on each type of page and what kind of information to fill in them; I had to infer by going along which of course led to a large number of cuts since some sections were only present on one page of their type.

      Additionally, I do not think that having a bulky page for each character who have only appeared for a minute or worse, never appeared, is sustainable; there are many, many characters mentioned only in passing in the series, so do you intend to make a page for every single one? There are characters like Jakujou, Kinomoto, Niimi, Kaneko, Susumu, Onose etc who have had a bigger influence on the plot than Akira, Manabu, Hiroshi or Misuzu. I believe one consolidated page for those very minor characters would suffice since there is simply no information on things like their age or their status by the end of the series. It is also highly unlikely anyone would be looking for that character in that particular to warrant their own page.

      I had originally intended to keep the history section separate, but the definition of a biography is 'a written account of another person's life', which makes the biography section counter-intuitive if there is only a personality and character development (character development in fiction cannot be extricated from plot in any sense). Someone looking for a biography section would not be looking only for a description of the character's personality.

      History is either 1. the study of past events, particularly in human affairs; or 2. the whole series of past events connected with a particular person or thing. It thus made sense for the history section to contain events that have happened prior to the start of the series. If it's about hiding spoilers, then personality can simply be subsumed under 'description' and the history can be renamed 'detailed biography'.

      Considering that many pages have remained empty for a year, there is a need to streamline the wiki so that it looks approachable. No one wants to click on a page looking to find out more they don't know, only to find that there isn't actually anything else. The structure of the wiki is also staggering and discourages others who have finished reading the novel/watching the anime from helping out. Having more pages is fine, but the organization should be not be overly complex and the main information should be completed first.

      If you'd like me to explain my position further, I'd suggest using the wiki chat when we are both online so that points can be cleared up on the spot.

        Loading editor
    • That might be, but just jumping to conclusions instead of messaging someone for clarification is not the correct thing to do in my eyes. That I sometimes do not have the time to edit anything doesn't mean I do not check the wiki, especially during the holiday and university season, I can assure you of that! The sidebar on the Recent Activity clearly states I am Active; I would edit it if I knew I wasn't going to be able to at least check the wiki.

      I am not sure what you are missing on the Navigation, but it covers the majority of important content and there is unfortunately a limited amount of content that can actually fit on such a navigation, so of course not all pages can be reached by one click, but the content that is actually important and would be looked up often is present. Especially the world content can all be immediately found by clicking "Universe", and all Characters by clicking the representative button. If there are actually some articles that are important enough to be featured, feel free to suggest them as I would like to know if I missed something, but as of now it should feature the really significant articles and that is what is common for all wikis I have seen. I would personally wish that more could be featured as well, but unfortunately wikia does not give that option without spezialisized coding to the css.

      Again, I would prefer if suggestions like that would come first before just deciding things. I understand your concerns about the importance about the minor characters, but it is intended that even minor characters get their appearances, images, personalities, histories and known information shared. There are always people reading up on minor characters, even if not frequently. It would be much prefered if a page would actually be created and worked on before any pages get marked for deletion, as I have seen enough people start projects like that only to neglect them to work on other things. And with that comes the question which characters are deemed unimportant enough to end up on that page, which should not be decided by one person alone. It would heavily depend on the amount of information that is actually present for a character.

      The separate History sections are a part of many anime wikis, as histories can easily end up extremely long and detailed (They almost always consist of "History" for events of the past and "Plot" for events actually occuring in the told story). If your concern is the accurary of the titles, the Biography sections can be renamed to Personality, to avoid confusion and keep the main pages with the intended content. I am actually pretty sure it was labeled as such when I adopted the wiki, but along the way there were a lot of changes through the edits by users, so I fear it became inconsistent. Renaming the Biography sections is definitely an easy thing to do, though.

      I have unfortunately been one of the only active editors of the wiki and the story of Shin Sekai Yori is massive and complex. There are many pages which are empty because the series is not well known but consists of much more content than other animes/novels, not because anyone is discouraged to help out. There were many who did edits to fill the pages, but there is only so much you can do with a small number of people who actually know the wiki exists and bother to pay close attention to everything. It is in no way anyone's fault that pages remain empty, as everyone has been doing their best, especially me. Before I adopted this wiki there was almost nothing at all (I am not the original founder, if you are not aware). I did try to gather information when I had it presented and had to wait for a long time for the novel fan translations to even get to the point where they are now (When I started it had only reached some point after the first time skip). Gathering information from an anime that only presents specific topics here and there is a hard and slow task, so please do not make assumptions that disrespect the effort the community has put into the wiki so far. I want everything to stay fair and respectful, if possible.

      It is probably not your intention to come off as rude, but you have only been editing for roughly a week and each wiki has its own history and way of handling things. I am a patient person and I am always up to consider suggestions, but it does sadly not make a good impression when new editors come and make it seem like everyone who worked on a wiki so far has been doing a bad job when they were doing their best.

      I don't know if there will be a chance to meet in the chat as my time zone is usually very different from others', yet I check the wiki whenever I can and if you have further suggestions, you can either leave comments on respective articles or create a talk page for suggestions. I trust in your patience and as you said, it's important the main articles get filled with content, so you can always work on that while waiting for a reply.

        Loading editor
    • I did start with filling in information, which I'd figure you'd check and correct as is the case with other wikias whenever a new user becomes active, but after a few days there was no other activity and no, I do not know that the status can be edited, and as far as I know hardly anybody edits their activity status if they were really to drop off the radar.

      I do think that the navigation (and content in general) is missing a great deal, especially what exactly is Shin Sekai Yori e.g. a novel by Kishi that was adapted into an anime series and a manga, when was it written/adapted, basic general information, a prequel currently being written. Of course not all pages can be reached in one click, but it has to intuitively guide people on where to click to reach it and this can be achieved by better organization. Since you have been here for a year, you are probably used to knowing how to reach the page you're looking for. For anyone else, it's probably faster to use the search bar than to try and figure out, say, where to find Ryou Inaba (Is he a major character? Minor? Supporting?) or where to read about death feedback. As you said, how to classify characters shouldn't be decided by a single person, so how exactly have you been determining which characters are major/minor/supporting? Just because all anime wikis do it doesn't mean it is actually a good idea, not to mention SSY isn't only an anime. Furthermore, the categorization on the tab navigation doesn't match the categorization on the character navi table added at the bottom of articles, which is just confusing. On a side note, why is the empty blog posts page (which is likely to remain empty for a long time) coming before the Translations pages, which is indisputably the most time-consuming and widely-consumed fan work?

      If you're so keen on suggestions, the first thing I'd suggest is for the sub-tabs under series to be renamed "Novel", "Anime", "Manga"; "Merchandise" should be moved to this tab as it is officially produced, and nothing to do with the fan community. Then, allow for a drop-down bar under each of them so you can have pages such as "General Information" and "Novel Chapters" for the Novel sub-tab. "Music" should be moved to the Anime sub-tab since music is only featured in the anime (the only exception is Going Home, but that can be also included under Universe. "Season 1"/"Season 2" can be changed to "Episode List" (since you've already deleted Season 2's page, I don't understand why it is still accessible from the main navigation). Manga can have "Chapter List by Volumes", "Publishing Information" and "Manga-Only Characters", for instance.

      It is precisely because there is too little information to populate a page that I suggested those pages be merged. Having finished reading the novel, I can assure you that Ken/Hiroshi/Misuzu/Akira/Rei/Susumu do not appear again, ever. Yuu Tatebe doesn't even appear at all, which makes his entire page a three-sentence description at best since you have no pictures, age, or status. Besides, pictures can be inserted at the side of an article so I can't quite see the point of creating a page with a character tabber just to have a picture and the rest of the information going "Age: Unknown. Status: Unknown. Japanese Voice Actor: N/A. English Voice Actor: N/A. First Appearance in Anime: N/A. First Appearance in Manga: N/A."

      Ok, if the section is renamed to Personality then I think that's very fair and will not mislead readers. I can help out with correcting them across the wiki if you green-light it. I have no desire to spend time on it only to have them all reverted. History on the other hand, for the tab to be named "History" when it is in reality mostly about the character's part in the plot, is rather deceiving, especially since the information in the tab is hidden until clicked on and some may not know that this is where the plot description lies.

      I can assure you that the complexity of the organization is definitely one of the reasons I didn't want to help out when I first came across it, and I'm aware of many other SSY fans who, while actively discussing the novel/anime/manga, do not relate to the wikia at all and I'm also sure that it's not because they don't know if exists. If you google 'shin sekai yori', the wikia is one of the first few results. SSY is no Tokyo Ghoul, but the fanbase isn't as small as only being a few people. I'm not blaming anyone for empty pages, but I find it senseless to keep creating more for mob characters when the main pages aren't even halfway done, because it creates a greater organizational headache for the person overlooking the wikia.

      I can tell you upfront that making a good impression is the least of my concerns if I have to be dishonest in order to curry favor. If you don't like me, that's fine, but judge the suggestions on their own merits. Likewise, I'm not out to insult you personally; there are certainly good things done and I don't deny their effectiveness e.g. deleting Season 2 category. I can definitely credit time and effort, but that doesn't change the end result that I find pages more often by wikia's automatic suggestions than by good site design.

      If you live in Europe, your morning is my afternoon. If you leave a message, I can come online if possible; but again, the chat is only a suggestion. I find it tiring, even if you don't, to use walls of text to explain things because I've never seen anyone agree on anything in this way.

        Loading editor
    • If you seriously think less than a weak is enough of your edits not being checked to freely assume someone dropped inactive then you must be a really impatient person, and that therefore still doesn't justify it, no matter the excuse. Real life exists.

      The general information on different media do not need separate pages, that is why it is on a combined page under "Series". It is linked on the front page and in the navigation and all necessary information can be found there. It is clearly labeled as "About Shin Sekai Yori" and can be found in a second. It is not the purpose of a navigation to provide such direct information, that is what articles are for. Again, instead of pointing out something is missing on information, add it to the respective pages.

      People would use the search bar anyway if they were searching for a specific character. Because, believe it or not, that is always the quickest way unless you are looking for a main character. You are portraying every person out there as incredibly lazy and impatient with your words, which is your sole personal view. There are wikis which do not have a functioning navigation at all or much more complex ones because of the content sizes, and it still won't hold people back from editing. I bluntly said won't care about people who refuse to provide information for whatever reason. No one forces them to use wikis. What counts are those who do care enough to provide information regardless of them having to spare few seconds of their life to find an article. It's not like the important content is not featured at all.

      The blog posts come first because the section is called Community and it's a wikia standard. The Translations are, in fact, pure fan work and stand in no direct connection to this wiki, so it has no priority over something that is a standard part of a wiki community whatsoever. Featuring fan work at all is not common for wikis, but I personally thought it would be convinient to offer it regardless. That the blog posts are empty does not make it less of a part of the wiki community that is provided and the order of categories on a navigation does not mark their importance. I don't know what leads you to that idea.

      The wiki has existed since 2012, and until I came here there was nothing. There existed only about 20 pages, if at all. The fan base of Shin Sekai Yori is inactive and small, and that you know a few people who may be discussing it actively does not change the fact that it is an old and highly unknown and underrated fandom. When I came here, long after it was supposed to be active, there was nothing here. 20 pages, at most, maybe less, with only a few sentences of content, despite it existing for years. I looked through many sources, but recent activity in the fandom was present nowhere - Not tumblr, not forums, not any such sites.

      Maybe you find no sense in having information on as many different things as possible, but there is way more sense in that than having only the "Main Pages" (whichever pages you even label as such) completed and not providing information on things other people would like to read up on (i.e. specific creatures, stories, the details of cantus - Things that have brief mentions in the story but are still a significant part). If someone has information about these things present  they will add it as soon as they can provide it, that is how wikis work. It would make no sense to focus on other things just because some people prefer to read those over others. This is a database from individual people for individual people and every content counts, because unlike most fandoms it is the only database there is.

      Rename Biographies to Personalities and History to Story if you seriously believe terms are such a big deal. Work on a Minor Characters page and I will look to remove individual pages of the specific characters. I will consider adjusting the navigation. No wiki is optional and due to the mass of content of the series itself with few editors at all, there is bound to be inconsistency and incompletion at times. I'm not "keen" on suggestions, especially not from editors who come out of nowhere and continously present them as complains. I am not obliged in any way to even listen to your suggestions, no matter how you personally view them, so being disrespectful won't help you in any way. I could just ignore all of them if you have no interest in making an effort to be polite about them.

      As of now I have no mental energy nor interest to have any more discussions if they stress me more than they are productive and respectful, especially not via a chat. Do your green-lit edits if you want, but having this conversation at all is tiring for me, so it will be discontinued for the time being.

        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.